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Thread: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

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    Default Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    There seems to be a lot of dissapointment from fans on this board about Gillick.

    I don't claim to be an expert on GMs, but I think he's a solid choice. I imagine that if he was 48 and not 68, the response would be significantly more positive. Furthermore, it seemed that Gillick and Hunsicker were the front runners all along and any wishes for Cashman and Epstein were not likely to be granted.

    **side note** With the significant budgets that Cashman and Epstein have had to work with, I don't really know how easily you could evaluate their ability to move to another franchise and operate w/ certain fiscal restraint.

    Here's an EXCERPT of an article I found on Yahoo written by Peter Handrinos that suggests that Gillick should be in the HOF. It chronicles his career as a GM .... a very impressive career.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...del&type=story


    "Any kind of glance back on Pat Gillick's career as a team builder reveals greatness, and on multiple levels.

    You want a talent evaluator? This is the guy who drafted future stars like Dave Stieb, Lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield, and Jimmy Key. The guy who once stole a future MVP, George Bell, through the same Rule 5 draft that also produced solid Blue Jays contributors like Willie Upshaw and Kelly Gruber.

    Some might say a Hall of Fame GM should be a superlative trader, too. Well, look no further.

    Pat Gillick once traded for a young prospect named Fred McGriff and built a two-time World Champion with the 1992-93 Blue Jays by swapping for stars like Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, David Cone, and Rickey Henderson. His best set of trades and signings may have come in his last posting, in Seattle , where found a way to replace expensive superstars like Randy Johnson , Ken Griffey , Jr. and Alex Rodriguez with a well-designed collection of complimentary players including Mike Cameron , Aaron Sele, Bret Boone, and Jeff Nelson .

    Of course, none of those decisions amount to much without results, and Gillick has collected those plenty of those, too. He needed six full years to build a winner with an expansion franchise and once he turned the corner he never did look back - Gillick's teams enjoyed winning seasons in every one of the eleven full seasons before his departure from the Toronto , then enjoyed another two winning seasons in Baltimore , and another four straight winners in Seattle . In all, Gillick crafted winning teams in 16 of his last 17 full seasons, nine of which made it into October. One of those teams, the 2001 Mariners, earned a record-tying 116 wins and Gillick's recognition as Executive of the Year.

    How valuable was Pat Gillick over the course of his career? In the nine combined years prior to his three retirements, his franchises averaged 94 wins per year and made seven total playoff appearances. After he left, however, those same ball clubs fell off a cliff by averaging 61 wins and came up with exactly . . . zero playoff appearances. Basically, the guy made a difference between his ball clubs' finish at the very top or the very bottom of the division.

    Among all free agency-era GM's, only John Schuerholz has been Pat Gillick's equal in terms of consistent winning and titles, and even Schuerholz has to come along with a tiny asterisk - the Braves' master architect has worked with bigger budgets during most of his career.

    To put Gillick's achievements in their fullest context, however, it's important to remember what they've meant to the course of baseball history. He's contributed to playoff teams with three separate franchises, displaying the kind of team-building versatility matched only by the immortal Rickey's work with the Cardinals, Dodgers, and Pirates. Gillick's two World Series winners, the 1992 and 1993 Blue Jays, were the most popular teams in Major League history in terms of attendance. The capper to his international career may have been the signing of Ichiro Suzuki for the Mariners, the one single move that's done the most to open up Japan 's vast talent pool and audiences to Major League Baseball in the new millennium.

    Nowadays the 68-year old Gillick is in semi-retirement, serving as a part-time consultant to the Mariners' front office and a full-time husband to Doris, his wife of 37 years. By rights, the man should one day be speaking from a shrine in Cooperstown . Pat Gillick was nice enough to talk to me from his home in Canada ."

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Gillick will have to earn our trust, it's that simple. He could have the greatest BIO ever in life...until I see the fruits of his labor, none of it matters to me.

    I hope he's as good as that article makes him out to be. I really do.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    Gillick will have to earn our trust, it's that simple. He could have the greatest BIO ever in life...until I see the fruits of his labor, none of it matters to me.

    I hope he's as good as that article makes him out to be. I really do.
    Who, of the candidates that were mentioned previously, had "earned your trust" already? I guess in other words, who would you have rather have been hired and why?
    That's not old school that's good school.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    Gillick will have to earn our trust, it's that simple. He could have the greatest BIO ever in life...until I see the fruits of his labor, none of it matters to me.

    I hope he's as good as that article makes him out to be. I really do.
    He's better than Wade.

    Without stepping into the office, he's better.

    Whether he can make a difference this year, I don't know. Across the next 3, I'm sure he can.
    If the only tool you have in your toolbox is a hammer, soon everything starts to look like a nail.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by domenick2x
    He's better than Wade.

    Without stepping into the office, he's better.

    Whether he can make a difference this year, I don't know. Across the next 3, I'm sure he can.
    The guy's resume is impressive. I cant believe this isnt being looked at by most posters as a positive development.
    That's not old school that's good school.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWolf
    The guy's resume is impressive. I cant believe this isnt being looked at by most posters as a positive development.
    Hunsicker was a more visible name going into this.

    Epstein, Cashman similarly.



    Without thinking about it, this looks like the 'Manuel Option' - take the guy that's NOT the biggest name being talked about.

    The difference is, this guy actually is qualified.
    If the only tool you have in your toolbox is a hammer, soon everything starts to look like a nail.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWolf
    Who, of the candidates that were mentioned previously, had "earned your trust" already? I guess in other words, who would you have rather have been hired and why?
    Not a single candidate earned my trust, hence the reason you won't find a single post from me supporting one person over another. I need to see changes, I need to see the fruits, and I need to see the success that comes as a result. I'll give my evaluation of Gillick at this time next year.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    Not a single candidate earned my trust, hence the reason you won't find a single post from me supporting one person over another. I need to see changes, I need to see the fruits, and I need to see the success that comes as a result. I'll give my evaluation of Gillick at this time next year.
    Sounds like a pretty simple equation:

    Win (no matter what the gm does or does not do) and be deemed a success

    Lose (again no matter what the gm does or does not do) and be deemed a failure
    That's not old school that's good school.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWolf
    Sounds like a pretty simple equation:

    Win (no matter what the gm does or does not do) and be deemed a success

    Lose (again no matter what the gm does or does not do) and be deemed a failure
    At no time did I state implicitly, explicitly, or otherwise anything that you said in your post.

    I will say this though: if this team gets to the playoffs in 2006 after not having done so for god-knows-how-long...that'll be a real good sign for nick the new guy. But I definitely look deeper than mere wins and losses. I'll be paying close attention to how he handles transactions, how he adjusts throughout the season when injuries occur and needs arise, and I'll be paying particular attention to the development of young talent and our farm system...because after all, a good GM will build your franchise not just for immediate success, but for longterm continuous success.

    LWolf, if there is one thing I can't stand about you, it's that you put words in people's mouths. You'll take someone's post and interpret it in a manner that was never intended...and then hold people to your interpretation of what they said. You need to improve your people skills.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWolf
    Sounds like a pretty simple equation:

    Win (no matter what the gm does or does not do) and be deemed a success

    Lose (again no matter what the gm does or does not do) and be deemed a failure
    Wrong. We're not going to be Notre Dame here and judge the guy on one offseason of work. I'll give the guy the next 3 years to setup a truly playoff caliber team (which means we make it once or more in the next 3 years).
    Quote Originally Posted by thejerseydevil View Post
    We just have you a few others who think it's completely irrelevant as if you'd be happier with 12-16, 2.50 ERA guy rather than a 20-8, 4.50 ERA.
    Yeah just a few of us crazy idiots...

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by pennstpat
    Wrong. We're not going to be Notre Dame here and judge the guy on one offseason of work. I'll give the guy the next 3 years to setup a truly playoff caliber team (which means we make it once or more in the next 3 years).
    I don't give him 3 years. Not with the talent he is inheriting. I give him 2, MAXIMUM. Then I call for his head.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    Not a single candidate earned my trust, hence the reason you won't find a single post from me supporting one person over another. I need to see changes, I need to see the fruits, and I need to see the success that comes as a result. I'll give my evaluation of Gillick at this time next year.
    Say Gillick comes in, moves some contracts, gets a new manager... but clearly sets up for Year 2 success at the expense of Year 1 success.

    A 'one step back, 2 steps forward' equation.

    Would you give your approval?
    If the only tool you have in your toolbox is a hammer, soon everything starts to look like a nail.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by domenick2x
    Say Gillick comes in, moves some contracts, gets a new manager... but clearly sets up for Year 2 success at the expense of Year 1 success.

    A 'one step back, 2 steps forward' equation.

    Would you give your approval?
    Yes. I've stated that I'll give him 2 years.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    Yes. I've stated that I'll give him 2 years.
    I personally won't hang a 2 year window around his neck. But I think we're pretty much on the same page as far as what constitutes a successful GM.
    If the only tool you have in your toolbox is a hammer, soon everything starts to look like a nail.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    I don't give him 3 years. Not with the talent he is inheriting. I give him 2, MAXIMUM. Then I call for his head.
    Tell me how any GM can completely turn around an organization in the time you're allotting. He's not the manager, he can only put the pieces in place. 3 years gives him a chance to make trades, re-establish the front office, and turn the minor league system in a different direction. You can't do that within 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by thejerseydevil View Post
    We just have you a few others who think it's completely irrelevant as if you'd be happier with 12-16, 2.50 ERA guy rather than a 20-8, 4.50 ERA.
    Yeah just a few of us crazy idiots...

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by pennstpat
    Tell me how any GM can completely turn around an organization in the time you're allotting. He's not the manager, he can only put the pieces in place. 3 years gives him a chance to make trades, re-establish the front office, and turn the minor league system in a different direction. You can't do that within 2.
    If we were the Kansas City Royals, your point would be a good one. But this team doesn't have very far to go to being a very successful franchise. We have talent on the field. An awful lot of great, young talent. We need some coaching changes, and we need a GM that can adjust as needed throughout the season, recognizing deficiencies and doing something about them. Something more than Paul Abbott. Get it?

    The new Phillies GM should not need 3 damn years to get this team to the post season. That's too much time, I'm sorry.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by shlo
    His best set of trades and signings may have come in his last posting, in Seattle , where found a way to replace expensive superstars like Randy Johnson , Ken Griffey , Jr. and Alex Rodriguez with a well-designed collection of complimentary players including Mike Cameron , Aaron Sele, Bret Boone, and Jeff Nelson .
    Seriously? wow...I mean, you're talking about 3 players who were arguably the best at their position at the time they were traded...and that's all he got? Not so much that this is a knock on Gillick, but that the writer doesnt have much of a clue. On top of that, the writer didnt even mention maybe the best of the players Gillick got in those trades, Freddie Garcia.

    I dont see where those trades can be seen as good...let alone better than the other acquisitions mentioned earlier in the article, such as stealing George Brett.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    If we were the Kansas City Royals, your point would be a good one. But this team doesn't have very far to go to being a very successful franchise. We have talent on the field. An awful lot of great, young talent. We need some coaching changes, and we need a GM that can adjust as needed throughout the season, recognizing deficiencies and doing something about them. Something more than Paul Abbott. Get it?

    The new Phillies GM should not need 3 damn years to get this team to the post season. That's too much time, I'm sorry.
    Are you even remotely aware of the situation in the minors? We have THE worst system in baseball at the moment (seriously). I would rather we make it one in 3 years (like I said) and have a much improved minor league system than make it next year and have no future to speak of. Stop being short sighted, a GM isn't brought in just to make a couple trades.
    Quote Originally Posted by thejerseydevil View Post
    We just have you a few others who think it's completely irrelevant as if you'd be happier with 12-16, 2.50 ERA guy rather than a 20-8, 4.50 ERA.
    Yeah just a few of us crazy idiots...

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    Quote Originally Posted by runner1775
    If we were the Kansas City Royals, your point would be a good one. But this team doesn't have very far to go to being a very successful franchise. We have talent on the field. An awful lot of great, young talent. We need some coaching changes, and we need a GM that can adjust as needed throughout the season, recognizing deficiencies and doing something about them. Something more than Paul Abbott. Get it?

    The new Phillies GM should not need 3 damn years to get this team to the post season. That's too much time, I'm sorry.
    Again, 1 step back and 2 steps forward.

    If helping this franchise to the next level means trading some of that on-field talent for young players, then the 2 year window might be too short. I don't think we're talking about one missing piece here.
    If the only tool you have in your toolbox is a hammer, soon everything starts to look like a nail.

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    Default Re: Gillick -a nice bio I found.

    People keep harping on Gillick as somebody who destroys a farm system. Please go into more detail. Does he trade away young talent on the farm or is he a poor talent evaluator? I just don't know much about his history dealing with the farm.

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