Draft day Trade

[Slobfather]

I'm curious to get some thought of a few people here.

I pulled a last minute trade prior to the draft in a 12 team semi-keeper league (intial draft).

I will be giving up the #1 overall pick and a 7th rounder. In return, I will be getting the #9 overall pick, and a 3rd rounder. (4th pick in the 3rd)

The deal is already consummated, so your opinions cant change anything...but I'm curios if you guys think I did ok on this.

[Greshmahg]

Gotta correct one thing, Slob. It would have been the 4th pick in the 4th round because the 4th starts at 12 and works up. In the 3rd round, it'll be the 9th pick of the round.

[Treypops]

I personally wouldn't have slid all the way down to the #9 spot without picking up another 2nd rounder. The talent level between #1 & #9 is amazing is FF.

[Slobfather]

I personally wouldn't have slid all the way down to the #9 spot without picking up another 2nd rounder. The talent level between #1 & #9 is amazing is FF.
Well, I ended up trading back up to the 6th pick, and ultimatly gave up a 5th rounder for it....

It really ends up moving down 5 spots, and picking up a 3rd rounder.

[LALion]

It might be worth moving down a few spots to get the depth of an additional 3rd rounder, and you never know... you could get lucky like the Lions did with KJ

[Treypops]

It might be worth moving down a few spots to get the depth of an additional 3rd rounder, and you never know... you could get lucky like the Lions did with KJ
KJ wasn't a 3rd rounder. He was a second 1st rounder they had.

[LALion]

The point was that we moved down a few spots, and still ended up seeing him available against most predictions. I don't think anyone expected him to still be available that late in the first round. That, my friend, was lucky.

[Bump]

honestly, i was surprised to see you give up that #1 to drop out of the top 5. I thought you were just blowing smoke. i'm not sure you got the better of the deal. but time will tell. i wanted either green or moss. i almost moved up to 5 from 8, but didn't think green would still be there. and 5 was a few spots too early for moss. i expected moss to go at 7 or 8. glad i didn't pull the trigger on that trade to 5...since green went 3rd (as I expected). I got moss at 8 like i wanted. I thought 7 was going to be his spot.

[Rip]

3rd rounders are golden picks. I might have tried for a 2nd and given them a 5th or 6th though. Problem with your deal is that you basically knocked yourself out of RB contention. You also made your 2nd rounder pretty weak by picking 9. Your 2nd rounder is already like a 3rd rounder. You also are getting yourself a late 3rd rounder in return.

But, moving the 5th for the 6th will help you get Alexander, James, etc.

PErsonally i think you got hosed overall...lol

[Slobfather]

3rd rounders are golden picks. I might have tried for a 2nd and given them a 5th or 6th though. Problem with your deal is that you basically knocked yourself out of RB contention. You also made your 2nd rounder pretty weak by picking 9. Your 2nd rounder is already like a 3rd rounder. You also are getting yourself a late 3rd rounder in return.

But, moving the 5th for the 6th will help you get Alexander, James, etc.

PErsonally i think you got hosed overall...lol

I took McCallister with the 6, and got Chad Johnson with the extra pick, so it boils down to this...
Preacher vs Duece and Chad johnson

Personally, I would do that trade again anytime...I still got my "stud" RB, and picked up a "stud" WR inthe process....i would do that every single time.

[Slobfather]

The reason i did this trade, see if you can follow me....

1st off, in a 12 team league, and having the #1 pick, I knew that i would get Holmes, and wouldn't pick again for 23 turns. Since we can start 3 RBs in the league (we have a rb/wr option) I wanted to be able to run with 3 quality backs each week, and knew that I would have to spend my 2nd and 3rd round picks to get that. After spending my second and third rounders on backs, i knew there would be no way to get a "stud" type WR while waiting another 23 picks for them to come to me.

The trade afforded me the option of getting three very good backs (Duece, Steven davis, and corry Dillon) while still putting together a very good WR trio ( Chad johnson, C,Rodge, and Peerless Price). On top of that, I got a very good QB, that puts up good fantasy numbers because of the trade (aaron brooks).

Honestly, its this kind of creative thinking, and knowing where i could get "good,or great" players at each spot that wins me championships in almost every league I am in.

In this case, we have a 12 team league, where NOBODY is solid at every position....except me, and because of the trade.

Hell, we have a few teams that are running with ONE solid back, and others that are running with ONE soid reciever.....

I will take that league

[Rip]

Not bad Slob. Who did you take as your 2nd and beginning 3rd rounder? You got your 1st 5 picks in the first 4 rounds.

I just think you could have pulled a 2nd rounder out of it instead of a 3rd. The guy that gave you the 6th wasn't willing to do something before the other trade? Could have saved you a pick. That #6 or #7 is my pick to take the best defense in the draft. The difference between Priest or LT and Deuce in points weekly is pretty big though, but still a good back. The receiver stats should make up for it.

I was just giving you a hard time. The first 3 rounds are clutch picks. There are plenty of point scorers available there that aren't even steals.

Who did you get for D? What round? I've done 2 drafts and waited one round too long. Well not really. The #1 guy has taken NE and Baltimore back to back in both drafts. I still got Seattle in the 7th. Most guys don't put too much emphasis on the D, but those top 5 defenses score you as many points as RBs and WRs many weeks.

[Rip]

I wrote that while you did. So I can see your other picks. I always go RB with my first 2 picks if I see the biggest WRs go. They get the most points. I usually go QB with my 4th.

[Slobfather]

Well, this is how I draft.......

I took duece at number 6, didnt pick again till the end of round 2 where I took S.Davis, and then came back with Corry dillon. With the extra pick from the first trade, I took Chad Johnson, I picked early in the 4th round from a seperate trade, and took C. Rodge.

In this league, we didnt have "team" defenses....

We each picked 5 individual defensive player instead...where we gets points for tackles, sacks, ints..etc,etc

[Rip]

What do you think of this draft?

5th overall pick in a 12 man league.

S. Alexander
K. Barlow (This pick my draft window froze. Pissed me off. This was an auto pick.)
McNabb (this pick was another freeze. I wanted a receiver)
S. Moss
C.Chambers
Toomer
T. Barber
Carolina Def
J. Elam
B. Johnson
J. Whitten
Seattle Def
E. Kennison
Moe Williams
M. Brunnell

Somewhat in order I think.

[Slobfather]

I like it alot! Barlow will be huge this year, so i wouldnt get to upset about getting him. I bet he is a top 5 back before its over.

When I evaluate drafts, i look at the backs first, and then see how the WRs shake out. after that I look to the QB.

Honestly, you have a very good team, and should compete for the title..

How many teams?

[Rip]

12 teams. Start 2 RBs and 3 WRs.

Barlow annoyed me bacause I think he will have a hard time getting TDs, but Yahoo! has him ranked like 12 so he was the one available.

The defense is usually my wildcard every year. This league is a Winners league and the 3rd straight year I have this team in one. I had the Tampa D in the Super Bowl year and the NE d last year. Defense wins championships.

My team last year was ridiculous. I had the 1st pick and got Priest and Jamaal Lewis in the 1st 2 rounds....lol

[Slobfather]

This is the deatails of how the whole trade worked out.


It was actually a 3 way deal, I traded #1 and a 7th rounder to pick up the 9th, and an extra third. I then traded the #9, my 4th and 5th rounders, to get up to 6, and got a higher 4th rounder, and a 6th. The 4th rounder I gained 5 spots, and the 6th rounder I dropped 8 spots.

The players I got from the trades:
McCallister, Chad Johnson, C.Rogers, and aaron Brooks

The Players Gresh eneded up with out of the trades:
Priest holmes, and boo williams

The Players Sportznut eneded up with:
Marshal Faulk, Brett favre, Tj Duckett


If you look at it with the players we each got out of it, i honestly cant see how anybody would think I lost out in the deal.

[Rip]

I'd probably do that too. You have a solid group. The point scorers on offense are pretty much run by the 5th round with a few sleepers left. Like I said before. 3rd and 4th rounders are usually your make or break picks. You really don't need the best at each position. You just need a balanced team with steady scorers. You get a couple guys who can blow up in a week and you are good to go. It is amazing how many people don't realize that the backs are the most important fantasy players. I see so many people let stud backs slide to me in the second round so they can pick a receiver.

I need to try a league where you pick players for D instead of teams. I can't even count how many 20+ point defense weeks I've had though.

[Rip]

We might need to have a Fantasy Football sticky in here...lol.

They have one on the Real GM board which is kind of cool. Makes it so people don't need to start a new topic every time someone does a draft.

[Slobfather]

I'd probably do that too. You have a solid group. The point scorers on offense are pretty much run by the 5th round with a few sleepers left. Like I said before. 3rd and 4th rounders are usually your make or break picks. You really don't need the best at each position. You just need a balanced team with steady scorers. You get a couple guys who can blow up in a week and you are good to go. It is amazing how many people don't realize that the backs are the most important fantasy players. I see so many people let stud backs slide to me in the second round so they can pick a receiver.

I need to try a league where you pick players for D instead of teams. I can't even count how many 20+ point defense weeks I've had though.
Well, keep your eyes open next year. this league is a semi-kepper league (hold over 5 players), and if somebody poops out during the season, i will offer you there spot.

The one thing i wont tollerate in a league that i commish is "dead teams". if they dont play the entire year, they wont be back.

[Rip]

We're having that problem in our baseball league right now. Only about 8 of the 12 are going to get to stay for next year.

I'd be interested if you had a spot next year. That isn't saying I am wishing you to have a few inactives or anything...lol

I see you have sportznut in the league. I'm in that league with him and he is trying to decide if there is going to be enough keepers for next year.

[Slobfather]

We're having that problem in our baseball league right now. Only about 8 of the 12 are going to get to stay for next year.

I'd be interested if you had a spot next year. That isn't saying I am wishing you to have a few inactives or anything...lol
Hey, i run a VERY good baseball league, and will have an opening next year....you want it? I will hold for you right now if you do!

[Rip]

I'll get into that. The only one I will be in next year again is the one with sportznut if we have enough people for the keepers.

[Bump]

Slob, I must admit you did a good job piecing your RBs together through trades after the draft. That will help you a lot since you originally drafted a gang of senior citizen RBs (Emmitt, George, Davis....along with fellow Geritol poppers R. Smith and Brunell). You had me confused for a second during the draft. Had me wondering if you remembered that it was a KEEPER league. I drafted accordingly. Now we all know RB is eimportant. But I think top notch WRs are just as important if they are putting up top RB type numbers. since we start 3 WR and 2 RB (or 4 WRs and 3 RBs...depending on how you want to use the wr/rb spot), i figured I'd come out in good shape if I got 3 REALLY good WRs to counter 2 good RBs. So I was able to accomplish that and also secure at least one stud RB. Kinda flipped the script from if i had a top 5 pick. Since I had the #8 pick, I had to go the WR or Defense route. Since great WRs kept falling to me, i just couldn't pass them up....Boldin in 9th. that was a luxary I could afforts since I already had my 'big 3'. Afterall, this IS a keeper league. Just gonna be hard trying to figure out who to keep. LOL

While your RBs are nice (the younger ones that is), you'll find that my 'big 3' out produced you 'big 3' last year. ie: S. Davis, McAllister, and Dillon combined for 385.47 fantsay points while Moss, S. Smith, and K. Robinson combined for 423.53. also keep in mind that I also have Boldin on my bench. I have Rudi as my #1 RB and forced to start T. Minor as my number 2. But both are starters so i should be ok....Brady is my solid QB.
will be interesting when we play each other to see how it all balances out. Minor is my weak link THIS year. But because i drafted for the keeper aspect, you guys will likely be trying to hit me up later this year or next trying to con me out of my gaggle of next generation stud RB's that i managed to stock pile (G. Jones, C. Perry, and McGahee). Also with Leftwich and Boller on my bench backing up Brady, i'm good. obviously one of those QBs will be available for trade at some point. The most valuable lesson I've learned in FF is P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E. Being a Lions fan, I have plenty of that.

[Slobfather]

Well, I have to admit that i got caught with my pants down a bit. I had the intentions of drafting KJ with the "extra" 3rd roundpick I recieved. He had been drafted right around the 5th round in most leagues I'm in.

I should have known that in an all "lions" league, he would go earlier, but was surprised when he took off that quick.

However, I look at keeper backs differantly than most. EVERY player in the NFL is just one hit away from being a non-keeper, but backs are even more at risk. With an average of 3 years in the league per back, i normally draft for the now where backs are concerned, and draft my keepers in the WR department since they have a much longer life span...


With Chad johnson, Holt, and Rogers, I think I accomplished my goal.

[Bump]

Ah Ha!

I definately called it. I knew you were eyeing KJ. LOL tried to blow me smoke when I called you on it. actually it was just a weak attempt on my part to try making you feel obligated NOT to pick KJ simply because i told you you WOULD. LOL yeah, i was after him all along. So i was just as disappointed as you were when he flew off the board that quick.

[menear]

I also couldnt believe that he was gone that early.

My draft idea going in was to get 5 young players that i can draft around every year. with the 2nd pick a RB (LT) im set their for awhile. Then had to go YOUNG at WR. L. FITZ, R. Williams, An. Johnson, L. Evans. Then I went with a younger QB that can play for years C. Pennington and just traded for a QB that I might Look too keep awhile as i think he could have a HUGE upside in D. Henson.

I know thats more then 5 players but Injuries and disappointment in some of the young guys will let me know what 5 too keep.

[sportznut]

I can vouch for RipVanWallace and his fantasy activity. He has been a terrific competitor in my baseball league. Slobber, you can do no wrong giving him the invite.

[Cyric]

The keeper league was an interesting experiment for me.

I'm relatively new to FFL - only played my first league last year - and keeper leagues (with individual defensive players) were a mystery to me.

My draft was spotty at best, easily the worst one I had all weekend. I think what hurt me was the fact that this particular league is populated almost entirely by hardcore football slappys and FFL veterans who knew exactly what they were doing.

For instance:

I took Portis in the first round. No big shock there, nor big brainpower. Then all the RBs started flying off the board as fast as you could blink, with the exception of the Moss / Harrison picks. By the time my second-rounder came around, I was looking at one of the second-tier - but still solid - backs like Dillon/Davis (who Slob took back-to-back at the end of the round). But since the backs were all going quick, there was also Daunte Culpepper sitting right THERE at pick #20 overall. Considering I'd seen him go in the first round in every other draft I did or heard about in the past couple weeks, and that he's a solid scorer even as a QB, I had to think about that one.

I ended up taking Culpepper with an eye on Kevin Jones as a third-rounder (knowing that the Lions-fans prejudice and insane pace of running backs getting drafted would raise his stock), and stashing him as a keeper. (Cornbread or not, I think KJ will be a solid back this year).

KJ ended up going one pick before me in the third round, so I took the next best guy - Brian Westbrook. AFter that, I missed on some of the bigger-name WRs and ended up getting very much off track, even drafting a guy I never planned on drafting in Kellen Winslow. (Could be a good pick, but I don't really know how I ended up pulling the trigger on it.)

So I ask the veterans - what would you have done in that second-round situation, staring at Culpepper versus Corey Dillon or Stephen Davis? Damn it all and draft the back, or take the QB who could potentially be more explosive?

[Greshmahg]

I wouldn't sweat not getting Dillon or Davis too much. Davis is going to be losing carries to Foster this season--especially towards the end of the year, and the Carolina offensive line has undergone a pretty severe transformation. I think the Panthers are going to be relying a lot more heavily on the passing game this year.


Dillon? He's getting up there in years...spending a 2nd round pick on a guy who's not going to go 16...and who might put up some pretty shoddy numbers even when he is healthy? That's not good play. I know everyone is big on him because of his new team and all...but really, his numbers have been steadily diminishing over the last few years as his age has gone up. And he's a power back, so he's taken a lot of punishment over the years...playing against a lot of solid run stopping teams this year.

That being said...Culpepper? I think I woulda passed on him. He put up some gaudy numbers last year because he got 2 games against the Lions, 2 against the Bears, a game against the Cardinals, a game against the Broncos, a game against the Niners (who were hurt back there, on top of it), etc. He had a passer's dream schedule. This year? Not so much. Not sure who I would have taken in your situation, though Hines Ward comes to mind.
Your biggest headscratcher (to me at any rate) was taking Winslow when Bennett was still on the board.

[Cyric]

Yeah, the Winslow pick turned out to be a gigantic turkey. I don't really recall the thought process that got me talking myself into that one. As it turned out, I'm about one solid starter shy on both RB and WR, and that pick could easily have been filled by whoever I would have taken in place of Winslow. I shied away from Bennett in every league because of the out-for-four-weeks factor, at least as a starter. I got spanked on that, because other guys weren't so shy on him and plucked him up.

I thought about the receivers in place of Culpepper - Ward was there, so was Chad Johnson, and both were worth second-rounders. One of my weaknesses in FFL drafts is that I've had the RBs-Are-God mantra burned into my head so many times, that I totally underrate WRs and don't really look at them as top-tier scorers, even though many of them are better bets than Joe Halfback who starts for a mediocre team (Hellloooo, Thomas Jones). The way that draft unfolded left the running backs very thin even in the late second round, the receivers always group themselves together in a way that I usually figure I can wait a round to get a solid one (and that often happens), and there's Culpepper.

I don't think he'll backslide as much this year as you do. Even though I can't stand the Vikings team, he always has Moss, he always can take off running, and he always will have the ball in his hands when it matters. First round value in most drafts? I usually go for that on my end.

So I still don't know what the right move would have been. Is Ward a better option than Culpepper? Maybe so in the second round, if you figure that other QBs will be there in the fourth and fifth rounds.

Our leagues always draft smartly, not too many hare-brained picks, so it's tough to out-think the opponents.

Of course, when I draft the Soldja, all bets are off.

[Greshmahg]

Well, look at who the top QB's left were: Hasselbeck was still there, Trent Green, Pennington, etc.

There were a lot more top tier QB's left than receivers.

[sportznut]

After a draft no matter how good or bad you think you did, everyone always second guesses some of their picks.

In your case asking if I would've taken Culpepper, a WR, or someone like Davis or Dillon at that point, it's all about value to me.

Do you want a couple of aging backs in the second round? One that will continue to lose carries to Foster and probably won't make it out of the first half of the year with that suspect line?

Or do you want Dillon who could have a bounceback year, but isn't exactly in an offense that features any one player?

I guess the question is who could you get better value from a few rounds later, WR or QB?

I have n/p with Culpepper, but I also don't see anything wrong with taking a WR either at that point.

There is plenty of quality at the QB position, and some of their numbers will be inflated just by teams throwing more than they used to not too long ago.

The Winslow thing probably will haunt you more. Yes he's a potential keeper, but do you really want one of your five keepers to be a TE?

And if not why would you then draft one so high?

I know some will disagree with me, but I'm willing to bet my 21st pick, Kleinsasser's numbers are all that far off from Winslow's.

Certainly not far enough to warrant 16 higher rounds.

But hey that's what I think, but I made some mistakes too.

[Cyric]

The Winslow thing probably will haunt you more. Yes he's a potential keeper, but do you really want one of your five keepers to be a TE?

And if not why would you then draft one so high?


Well, that's the obvious inexperience of semi-keeper leagues going there. I didn't really change my strategy much from a regular draft, which hurt me considerably because I didn't HAVE a keeper plan in place. Other than trying to draft younger guys that might turn into something down the road (which I tend to do in regular drafts anyway), but I didn't do as good a job with that as, say, Menear, who devoted his entire team to young superstuds in the making. Now let's see him protect all of those guys. :)

Dude, I second-guess constantly, and tweak my team incessantly. Last year in DGD's league, I started 0-6 (mostly close games lost because of one guy blowing up against me) but managed to cobble together a nice finish after trading away all but two of my draft picks.

Who knows if I can do the same thing here, but I'll certainly try. I just look at that roster and go, "What the hell?" =D

[Rip]

I can vouch for RipVanWallace and his fantasy activity. He has been a terrific competitor in my baseball league. Slobber, you can do no wrong giving him the invite.

Thanks sportznut. I certainly appreciate it.

You are whoopin' my ass this week in the first round of the playoffs. My team has just choked. I haven't gotten a quality pitching start in about 2 weeks. They screwed me real bad last week. I should have won that bye week from realm3.

[sportznut]

Thanks sportznut. I certainly appreciate it.

You are whoopin' my ass this week in the first round of the playoffs. My team has just choked. I haven't gotten a quality pitching start in about 2 weeks. They screwed me real bad last week. I should have won that bye week from realm3.
Well if you asked me where I thought I'd be when I drafted my team, I would've told you I had one of the best teams in the league. And if you look at my options for the 5 keepers, I really have 8-9 guys I could legimately keep.

However, given all that I was slipping and sliding in the standings towards the end of the year and I'm definitely happy to be winning against you this week. Certainly nothing is over yet though.

Oh and you don't have to thank me, you did all the work. When I started the league everyone was gung ho to make it a keeper league. Funny how most of the worst teams in the league this year haven't responded to my e-mails at all.

Bottom line is we have 8 out of 12 at the moment. If that doesn't change I will probably make us a 10 team keeper league and have to find two guys willing to take over someone else's team.

[Slobfather]

I would really like to have one of those spots SN. I know i dont post on the tigers board, but you know I am competetive, and will play hard all year.


It would actually be cool to play in a private league, without the headaches of being the commish.

[sportznut]

Slobber you were probably numero uno on my list anyways, but number 1 I'm going to wait a little longer, and number 2 I wasn't sure how you felt about taking over another team.

If I have 4 teams available for you to take over the question would be how would I decide who you ended up with and who someone else got?

Most likely I'd have to do it randomly, but what I would do is give you the entire final roster and then you could decide who your 5 keepers would be out of it.

I can assure you that I have looked at the teams and they aren't as bad as you might think.

I will consider others that I know well, but since you were the first to ask, you will be the first I contact if I do indeed have an opening.

This could be a 10 or 12 team keeper, but there is one, maybe two that aren't coming back for sure.

[Slobfather]

Thats all good junkie.....


I dont mind taking over another team at all. I kind of figured it would be that way.

Besides that, with all the trading I do, I prolly will only have a few guys left from that roster anyways....lol

[sportznut]

Well if it were me if there weren't that many keeper types, I'd just grab the best trade bait and go with that. I'm sure you'll do fine.

[menear]

Having the #2 pick in the draft kinda sucked for me. I wanted to trade down but that whole week i didnt have time to try to work a trade with anyone so their i was stuck. To me the biggest thing with this competive of a league (and i consider all 12 of us as very competive and football smart owners) is the 5 keeper players. (I joined that league cause I know we all get along and will be active for years.) I wanted 5 rookie - 3 year vets that I know year in and year out will dominate. Suffer this year I will but long term they will make up for it.

[menear]

Well, that's the obvious inexperience of semi-keeper leagues going there. I didn't really change my strategy much from a regular draft, which hurt me considerably because I didn't HAVE a keeper plan in place. Other than trying to draft younger guys that might turn into something down the road (which I tend to do in regular drafts anyway), but I didn't do as good a job with that as, say, Menear, who devoted his entire team to young superstuds in the making. Now let's see him protect all of those guys. :)


The only reason I drafted like i did was because of the fast of the people in the leauge. My god the football knowledge in that league is great. You had to find a way to build a team cause out smarting people WASNT an oppion. I have never been in that size of a league with people who I consider to KNOW the game as much as they do. And as of know I only have 4 players that I consider "superstuds" but im working on the 5th as we speak. LOL