Worst team in football????

[Slobfather]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

[sully]

I think the worst team in football resides in California.

IMO it'll either be San Diego or San Francisco, with honorable mentions going to Oakland and Arizona.

[Slobfather]

I think the worst team in football resides in California.

IMO it'll either be San Diego or San Francisco, with honorable mentions going to Oakland and Arizona.


Both would be very good choices IMO. Sandiego has become nothing more than a fiascle, and Erickson has managed to ruin yet another franchise down there in SanFran. Of course, having a cheap ass owner like the 49ers have doesnt help.


Speaking of cheap owners, good luck to the Vikes this year. :D It should be a very fun division to watch, with the Vikes and the Pack battleing for supremecy.

[Les Miles' Hat]

I think the falcons will continue their dominance in the cellar...

[GodofMike]

Arizona hands down also it's good to see you over here Slobber.

[Plummer29]

NOT 49ers!!
I can see why you guys are thinking that but im telling you know they wont too as bad as many think, now i really dont think they will make the playoffs like i said before but i they will surprise many.

[Slobfather]

NOT 49ers!!
I can see why you guys are thinking that but im telling you know they wont too as bad as many think, now i really dont think they will make the playoffs like i said before but i they will surprise many.

Well, I do like Barlow. I think he will have a HUGE year for you guys. However, I just can't see any other legitimate threat on offense. Loyd could come up big, and I really liked Woods in the draft, but both are unproven.

If the Niners aren't one of the bottom 3 teams in the league I would be VERY, VERY surprised.

[GodofMike]

Come on now what you don't like Tim Rattay or Ken Dorsey they will win at lest 6 games yeah right.

AZ will be on the bottom with the Bears a close second.
The 49ers could win 5 games but will be picking nuber 5 in this upcoming draft.
SD quites and sells the team cuz they find out how bad they really are.

[Cyric]

San Diego, pretty clearly.

The thing about the Philip Rivers fiasco is that it totally validated Archie Manning. I mean, look at it - this is a franchise that dropped the ball completely on signing their number one pick, and this isn't even the first time that they've done it (though to be fair, the late John Butler never would have let this happen). The Mannings looked like geniuses after they got their deal done relatively quickly with the Giants, and Rivers was hung out to dry by a San Diego team that had already alienated the guy who now has to start - Drew Brees - by drafting Rivers in the first place! it's nuts.

Remember, this is the team that decided Junior Seau - who grew up in San Diego and went to USC - shouldn't finish his career as a Charger. Doh!

San Fran has to be on the list, if only because they're blowing that team up. Peterson hates that front office, and would only stay if they keep franchising him. Dennis Erickson is an idiot and always has been. Why a guy like that got a second chance in the league, I'll never know. Rattay? Please. They've just lost so much talent, I don't see any way they recover past being one of the five worst teams in the league. And with that ownership and that coaching staff and that cheapass mentality, I don't see it turning around any time soon.

Now Arizona? that's a team doing things right. Dennis Green does one thing, and that is win. He can do it with less talent than other coaches, because he motivates and gets guys who play their asses off. Look at his slash-and-burn cutting - it's a lot different than when Millen and Mornhinweg did it here in 2001. Green has a plan and is sending messages to the guys he wants to step up and play. M&M were just dumping everyone and had no idea how to build it back up. I think Denny's miscalculating on Josh McCown, and that they may start slowly, but I think he'll be on a roll by the end of the season, and next year - with a good offseason - they could really surprise people.

You want a sleeper pick for a bad team? The Giants. Warner's gonna have a hard time moving around in the pocket with that giant fork in his back, and Eli may be a Manning, but he's still a rookie. They have so many guys that are sketchy on that team - Tiki Barber fumbles way too much and isn't a breakaway back, so he could easily fall off the radar screen at any time. Who backs him up? Ron Dayne? Toomer's a good receiver, but he's just one guy. Shockey's so convinced he's great, that he might just believe it instead of prove it. That line is in total flux, that defense has lost a lot of talent (and Strahan's getting older), and their special teams still suck. I honestly think that team is a few unlucky breaks from totally bottoming out and going something like 3-13.

[Ghostrider]

Hi all!

My vote goes to Chicago. That offense looks like shit.

[Bump]

my vote goes to SF with the giants a close 2nd place tie with CHI.

I also expect Miami to look bad. but more like 5-11 or 6-10 bad. they still have a good defense to carry them to a few wins. I see SF going 3-13 and the giants and chi going maybe 4-12. I see SD and ARI going maybe 5-11. SD has broken oakland in their division and ARI has SF as their whipping boy (team). so I think that will help them two teams a little.

[dogmeatIB]

Wow, where to choose...

Chicago? San Diego, San Francisco? Atlanta? New York Giants? Cleveland? Arizona? Heck Cincy has made a lot of moves, but will they work? Even Detroit, while they have a lot of talent and potential, could have a horrible year as they work through their growing pains (though I don't think they will).

So many teams are just a sneeze away from "and with the first pick of the 2005 draft..." it's just too hard to say.

[Purple Gorilla]

The Titans are just a season ending injury to McNair away from being on that list.

[menear]

I would go with San Fran only cause of the coaching. They have the players to win 3-6 games which would get them out of the bottom. But with that coaching and ownership I believe we have the next team to hold the bottom spot til the coaching changes.


wonder if mooch is smiling that hes out of their now?

[TheBurg45]

My vote probably goes to Arizona as they are still a few years away from all their players making large impacts. However, with that being said, i do think that the Bears and 9'ers are going to be running for a close second in that category.

[Fan]

California .... Sans teams.

[pukematrixx]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

amazing looking at this post from 2k4...everone was wrong about SD, Chicago, Arizona, who have all improved. yet we are STILL the worst in the league...godamnit.

[Hofinator10]

amazing looking at this post from 2k4...everone was wrong about SD, Chicago, Arizona, who have all improved. yet we are STILL the worst in the league...godamnit.

I wasn't wrong

[Ima]

I wasn't wrong

fOR ONCE

[LALion]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

Slobber, with all due respect to my old pal, until the Lions do something to prove they've improved, they're still the worst team in the NFL. Over the last 6 years, no other team can compete with our record. SD has a long way to fall to catch Detroit. the Raiders are neck and neck, and Miami might make a run for it. But we have a lot to prove, and it's going to take a winning record to do it. Chicago?!?!?! They went to the Super Bowl last season. When was the last time WE did that? (rhetorical question)

[domenick2x]

Slobber, with all due respect to my old pal, until the Lions do something to prove they've improved, they're still the worst team in the NFL. Over the last 6 years, no other team can compete with our record. SD has a long way to fall to catch Detroit. the Raiders are neck and neck, and Miami might make a run for it. But we have a lot to prove, and it's going to take a winning record to do it. Chicago?!?!?! They went to the Super Bowl last season. When was the last time WE did that? (rhetorical question)
Dude - 2004.

[PnkPanther]

Slobber, with all due respect to my old pal, until the Lions do something to prove they've improved, they're still the worst team in the NFL. Over the last 6 years, no other team can compete with our record. SD has a long way to fall to catch Detroit. the Raiders are neck and neck, and Miami might make a run for it. But we have a lot to prove, and it's going to take a winning record to do it. Chicago?!?!?! They went to the Super Bowl last season. When was the last time WE did that? (rhetorical question)

this post was from 2004, and chicago was awful in 04

[pukematrixx]

Dude - 2004.

LMAO, I was saying the same thing...crazy LALION

[Hofinator10]

Dude - 2004.


I'm bagging up at work right now. I can't believe he didn't notice the date.

[Hofinator10]

Holy shit I can't stop laughing. Just read slob's post then skip right to LaLions

[pukematrixx]

Holy shit I can't stop laughing. Just read slob's post then skip right to LaLions


bwwahahahhaha

[O'Donal31]

whoa suprising really only 1 person said the raiders would be at the bottom this next season...must be how nasty they did with offensive draft picks and free agents and how good of a job Kiffin is doing.

[Ima]

whoa suprising really only 1 person said the raiders would be at the bottom this next season...must be how nasty they did with offensive draft picks and free agents and how good of a job Kiffin is doing.

That was originally posted in 2004

[O'Donal31]

damn...

[pukematrixx]

some people have been greatly confused by this post..

[Ima]

some people have been greatly confused by this post..

Mopst people are confused by my posts

[KingCole]

That was originally posted in 2004well I still don't know oak THE worst next season, bottom 5. can't ever remember 1 team picking #1 twice in a row (maybe 70's bucs)?

[O'Donal31]

well I still don't know oak THE worst next season, bottom 5. can't ever remember 1 team picking #1 twice in a row (maybe 70's bucs)?

They wont be bottom 5

[Ima]

They wont be bottom 5

Who will be?

[O'Donal31]

well the raiders problem last season was offense and head coaching and this season they addressed the offense and head coach and Im willing to bet they will score more then there average 3 points a game and all but 6 games last year were they really blown out and all the other games they were in it but just couldn't score and the defense was always on the field for more then half the game. So give there nasty defense time to rest and split up the time of possension and actually have an offense that can score will give them some wins. so they wont suck bad this year.

[O'Donal31]

and to answer your question I dont know who the bottom 5 will be but I know the Raiders wont be one of them

[Ima]

well the raiders problem last season was offense and head coaching and this season they addressed the offense and head coach and Im willing to bet they will score more then there average 3 points a game and all but 6 games last year were they really blown out and all the other games they were in it but just couldn't score and the defense was always on the field for more then half the game. So give there nasty defense time to rest and split up the time of possension and actually have an offense that can score will give them some wins. so they wont suck bad this year.

They did what to fix their offense?

Rookie head coach

Rookie QB or shitbox MCown

No wr's

Rhodes won't be the answer

The Raiders will be bottom 5

[O'Donal31]

They did what to fix their offense?

Rookie head coach

Rookie QB or shitbox MCown

No wr's

Rhodes won't be the answer

The Raiders will be bottom 5

Rookie head coach who everyone has been blown away by because of how well he has turned this team around and how he hired the right people to help with the staff and brought in a new mind set to the team plus a better offensive scheme then art shell and bed and breakfest tom walsh had.


Rookie QB hmm everyone was saying the same thing about Vince Young last year and he sure shut alot of people up

Josh Mccown was 12-12 for a shitty arizona cardinals team. The raiders have more weapons on offense then that team and he has a 57 percent career completion pct. 25 tds and 29 ints all with a bad cardinals team.

No WRs?

Jerry Porter all though he has never had a 1,000 yard season he has also never been the number 1 WR on this team and this is his year to finally do it and hes a pretty good WR

Ronald Curry if it wasn't for 2 achilles injuries a few seasons ago he would be a household name and last year was the bright spot on the offense him getting his first year to start with a legit offensive team that doesnt go 3 and out everytime will be good for him

Doug Gabriel is a great 3rd WR and he was the Patriots best WR until he fumbled against the Jets and Bellichick held a grudge for costing him the game and cut him.

Johnny Higgins from all reports in camp is doing good and is a good speed threat

theres your WRs

Rhodes may not be the answer by himself but mix him with Justin fargas the speed guy and change of pace back and play him with Lamont Jordan these 3 running backs will not be great but they certainly wont suck they will be around average or above.

Justin Griffith the nasty Fullback that used to be with the Falcons the raiders signed in the offseason and hes can open up holes and is a good blocker plus he can catch out of the backfield pretty nicely and will be a threat there

the o line which sucked bad last year has a new o line coach who is pretty good his name is tom cable and last year the o line sucked because shell had everyone playing man to man they didnt do zone blocking like every other NFL team did thats why they got burned to bad because teams would overload the line and blitz and they were only blocking man to man. Plus many of those players were playing out of there normal position. Cable and Kiffin are going to run a Denver Broncos type offensiveline (that seems to work for the broncos) and they will be better.

and the defense is only going to get better...

playoffs nope not next year but bottom 5 no way.

[KingCole]

They wont be bottom 5well I for one can't come with 5 that are worse ;). my '07 bottom feeders in no order
clev, mia, oak, buff, tenn, tex, buff, det, tbay, wash
that gives em 50/50 shot of top 5 overall

[Ima]

Rookie head coach who everyone has been blown away by because of how well he has turned this team around and how he hired the right people to help with the staff and brought in a new mind set to the team plus a better offensive scheme then art shell and bed and breakfest tom walsh had.


Rookie QB hmm everyone was saying the same thing about Vince Young last year and he sure shut alot of people up

Josh Mccown was 12-12 for a shitty arizona cardinals team. The raiders have more weapons on offense then that team

No WRs?

Jerry Porter all though he has never had a 1,000 yard season he has also never been the number 1 WR on this team and this is his year to finally do it and hes a pretty good WR

Ronald Curry if it wasn't for 2 achilles injuries a few seasons ago he would be a household name and last year was the bright spot on the offense him getting his first year to start with a legit offensive team that doesnt go 3 and out everytime will be good for him

Doug Gabriel is a great 3rd WR and he was the Patriots best WR until he fumbled against the Jets and Bellichick held a grudge for costing him the game and cut him.

Johnny Higgins from all reports in camp is doing good and is a good speed threat

theres your WRs

Rhodes may not be the answer by himself but mix him with Justin fargas the speed guy and change of pace back and play him with Lamont Jordan these 3 running backs will not be great but they certainly wont suck they will be around average or above.

Justin Griffith the nasty Fullback that used to be with the Falcons the raiders signed in the offseason and hes can open up holes and is a good blocker plus he can catch out of the backfield pretty nicely and will be a threat there

the o line which sucked bad last year has a new o line coach who is pretty good his name is tom cable and last year the o line sucked because shell had everyone playing man to man they didnt do zone blocking like every other NFL team did thats why they got burned to bad because teams would overload the line and blitz and they were only blocking man to man. Plus many of those players were playing out of there normal position. Cable and Kiffin are going to run a Denver Broncos type offensiveline (that seems to work for the broncos) and they will be better.

and the defense is only going to get better...

playoffs nope not next year but bottom 5 no way.

The Raiders have better weapons then Fitz and Boldin?

I stopped reading your post there

Homer....

[O'Donal31]

well I for one can't come with 5 that are worse ;). my '07 bottom feeders in no order
clev, mia, oak, buff, tenn, tex, buff, det, tbay, wash
that gives em 50/50 shot of top 5 overall

buffalo twice?

[KingCole]

buffalo twice?ok mr perfect you never typo?

[O'Donal31]

ok mr perfect you never typo?

I wasn't trying to be a dick I thought you made a typo and meant for one buffalo to be a different team, trying to help you out

[John3714]

Rookie QB hmm everyone was saying the same thing about Vince Young last year and he sure shut alot of people up


Yes, Vince Young did play well, for a rookie, but he wasn't great. Tennessee didn't make playoffs. And, if you actually watched Titans games last year, as opposed to VY Sportscenter highlights, you would know that at around the same time that Young got put in, Henry became the featured back. And Henry played good. It can easily be argued that the Titans late season run last year, and Young's above average play, can all be attributed to Henry and the Titans running game.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, rookie QB's struggle when asked to carry a team. Russell won't be any different.

[pukematrixx]

Yes, Vince Young did play well, for a rookie, but he wasn't great. Tennessee didn't make playoffs. And, if you actually watched Titans games last year, as opposed to VY Sportscenter highlights, you would know that at around the same time that Young got put in, Henry became the featured back. And Henry played good. It can easily be argued that the Titans late season run last year, and Young's above average play, can all be attributed to Henry and the Titans running game.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, rookie QB's struggle when asked to carry a team. Russell won't be any different.

Another key point is VY uses his legs to bail himself out of trouble when need be...JR doesn't

[Rip]

I started reading this thread like it was new and thought Slob was trying to be funny...lol

Didn't catch it until they started talking about the 49ers.

[domenick2x]

buffalo twice?
Buffalo is twice as bad.

[John3714]

Another key point is VY uses his legs to bail himself out of trouble when need be...JR doesn't

True, but you can't overemphasize the importance Henry had on Young last year. If teams started to focus too much on Young, they would just hand the ball off to Henry. If they started to focus on Henry too much, they would keep the ball in Young's hands. Really, Fisher played it great last year, balancing the touches between those two.

The Titans lost Henry and Brown this off-season. Right now, their top two backs are LenDale White and that rookie (can't remember his name right now). If they can't pick it up, Young could be in for a long season.

[pukematrixx]

True, but you can't overemphasize the importance Henry had on Young last year. If teams started to focus too much on Young, they would just hand the ball off to Henry. If they started to focus on Henry too much, they would keep the ball in Young's hands. Really, Fisher played it great last year, balancing the touches between those two.

The Titans lost Henry and Brown this off-season. Right now, their top two backs are LenDale White and that rookie (can't remember his name right now). If they can't pick it up, Young could be in for a long season.

I take your word for it, not going to lie I didn't watch much Tennessee football this past year. I just know when shit breaks down Vince has a nother weapon that JR doesn't.

That weapon and his carefull use of it, makes VY, VY

[Jiddy78]

They did what to fix their offense?

Rookie head coach

Rookie QB or shitbox MCown

No wr's

Rhodes won't be the answer

The Raiders will be bottom 5

Bears will be top 1.

[MadNova]

True, but you can't overemphasize the importance Henry had on Young last year. If teams started to focus too much on Young, they would just hand the ball off to Henry. If they started to focus on Henry too much, they would keep the ball in Young's hands. Really, Fisher played it great last year, balancing the touches between those two.

The Titans lost Henry and Brown this off-season. Right now, their top two backs are LenDale White and that rookie (can't remember his name right now). If they can't pick it up, Young could be in for a long season.

That would be Henry as well.

[John3714]

That would be Henry as well.

That's right. Chris Henry. How could I forget?

[John3714]

I take your word for it, not going to lie I didn't watch much Tennessee football this past year. I just know when shit breaks down Vince has a nother weapon that JR doesn't.

That weapon and his carefull use of it, makes VY, VY

I agree 100%. That totally helped him out, and is something JR doesn't have (as well as most NFL QB's).

But watch.

Without a running game, teams are going to be able to spy Young much better. He's going to have less room to run. If you thought that last year was the Vince Young show, wait for this year. Unless White or Brown can bust out, Young is all that the Titans have. He will be either throwing or running on almost every play. If they make playoffs, I'm campaigning VY for MVP, because he will be the only reason they make it.

[MadNova]

Rhodes may not be the answer by himself but mix him with Justin fargas the speed guy and change of pace back and play him with Lamont Jordan these 3 running backs will not be great but they certainly wont suck they will be around average or above.



Don't forget about Bush

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........


http://www.vladville.com/media/emu_huh.jpg

[LALion]

this post was from 2004, and chicago was awful in 04You tryin to tell me I'm behind the times?

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://webhome.crk.umn.edu/clubs/horseman/ostrich%20head.jpg

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://www.blish.com/Content/ramseyhaig/97761_i_ostrich-head.jpg

[O'Donal31]

Russell Moves well for a big man and if he needs to scramble he is capable of it.

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos/santa_barbara_california/images/ostrich.jpg

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://www.link2content.co.uk/leadimages/ostrich2.jpg

[KingCole]

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos/santa_barbara_california/images/ostrich.jpgbefore you post too many more pics jiddy look at the date on slobbers post :eek:

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://www.hedweb.com/animimag/ostrich-hotlinks.jpg

[Jiddy78]

before you post too many more pics jiddy look at the date on slobbers post :eek:

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/73500/73500InPM_w.jpg

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........


http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/animals/assets/ostriches.jpg

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://www.travellersworldwide.com/Images2000/competition-may-2006/paternoster-ostrich.jpg

[O'Donal31]

whats with all the stupid pictures?

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://www.rps-southern.org.uk/Images/Stubbs/Ostrich-Profile-1.jpg

[Jiddy78]

whats with all the stupid pictures?

http://www.geocities.com/_tuan_/ostriches.jpg

[Jiddy78]

With both cincy, and detroit making marketable improvments over the past few seasons, I think both would no longer be considered the doormats of the NFL.

That being said, who is the worst team in the NFL this year? Sandiego? Miami? How about Chicago? Or Sanfran?

I'm sending my vote to Miami btw...........

http://www.buyostrichmeat.co.uk/images/ostriches.jpg

[Morgasm]

I think Jiddy's officially gone off the deep end.

[Jiddy78]

I think Jiddy's officially gone off the deep end.

http://www.whytraveltofrance.com/images/ostrichsmile.jpg

[MallenManson]

oakland will be battling with detroit for #1 pick overall yeat again.

[O'Donal31]

oakland will be battling with detroit for #1 pick overall yeat again.


You can think what you want because yes they have sucked for 4 years. But last year was mostly shell and tom walsh fault with the offense....I can't convince you to think differently any of you but I've read whats happening in training camp and what kiffin has done and I know they wont finish bottom 5 and we will just have to wait and see.

[MallenManson]

You can think what you want because yes they have sucked for 4 years. But last year was mostly shell and tom walsh fault with the offense....I can't convince you to think differently any of you but I've read whats happening in training camp and what kiffin has done and I know they wont finish bottom 5 and we will just have to wait and see.



replace Kiffin with Marinelli and all you're reading is the same old re-hashed homer spewing articles we Lions fans have been hearing every year since Millen got hired.

[O'Donal31]

no theres articles saying how kiffin has changed the team around and how Knapp actually has an offensive scheme and Cable has actually changed the offensive line around and put players at there normal positions and will have them running a zone blocking scheme instead of a man blocking one.

Kiffin has weeded out the players who dont want to be here while bringing in players from every where promoting competion between everyone which steps up everyones game. Plus the offense which was the big problem last year will be better and most likely wont score 3 points a game and go 3 and out everytime which with the raiders offense scoring points for once and allowing the defense to not be on the field for more then half the game and rest of will help them get more wins. Plus his practices are fast paced and no one is ever sitting around. Plus he's working on team unity after practice the other day he had all the players stay and ordered them food and ordered the big boxing match for all of them.

But Like I said I wont be able to change your mind and we will have to see next season what happens but number 1 pick again that wont happen.

[MadNova]

replace Kiffin with Marinelli and all you're reading is the same old re-hashed homer spewing articles we Lions fans have been hearing every year since Millen got hired.

The one main difference being that Oakland actually has something to hang it's hat on in it's D.

When the Lions hired Marinelli, they were pretty terrible in all phases of the game.

I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see a team like Atlanta or Buffalo net the #1 overall pick. Tampa Bay and Kansas City are possibilities as well.

[MallenManson]

no theres articles saying how kiffin has changed the team around and how Knapp actually has an offensive scheme andCable has actually changed the offensive line around and put players at there normal positions and will have them running a zone blocking scheme instead of a man blocking one.

Kiffin has weeded out the players who dont want to be here while bringing in players from every where promoting competion between everyone which steps up everyones game. Plus the offense which was the big problem last year will be better and most likely wont score 3 points a game and go 3 and out everytime which with the raiders offense scoring points for once and allowing the defense to not be on the field for more then half the game and rest of will help them get more wins. Plus his practices are fast paced and no one is ever sitting around. Plus he's working on team unity after practice the other day he had all the players stay and ordered them food and ordered the big boxing match for all of them.

But Like I said I wont be able to change your mind and we will have to see next season what happens but number 1 pick again that wont happen.




do you realize how many of the things you've said are matches with what is said about the Lions?

[O'Donal31]

do you realize how many of the things you've said are matches with what is said about the Lions?

Im not worried about the Lions. Everyone of the Raiders bashers the past 4 years have talked about what a turn around has already been done in oakland and after the draft everyone of them praised oakland and some even said they are going to be this years sleeper team.

[MallenManson]

The one main difference being that Oakland actually has something to hang it's hat on in it's D.

When the Lions hired Marinelli, they were pretty terrible in all phases of the game.

I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see a team like Atlanta or Buffalo net the #1 overall pick. Tampa Bay and Kansas City are possibilities as well.




and the lions can hang their hat on their O. only problem is, the D will lose them double digit games. same can be said for oakland's O

[O'Donal31]

and the lions can hang their hat on their O. only problem is, the D will lose them double digit games. same can be said for oakland's O

Oaklands Offense only sucked last season and like I said it was more the offensive scheme Shell had. The other 3 years they sucked the offense was pretty good while the Defense sucked.

[kilo]

no theres articles saying how kiffin has changed the team around and how Knapp actually has an offensive scheme and Cable has actually changed the offensive line around and put players at there normal positions and will have them running a zone blocking scheme instead of a man blocking one.

Kiffin has weeded out the players who dont want to be here while bringing in players from every where promoting competion between everyone which steps up everyones game. Plus the offense which was the big problem last year will be better and most likely wont score 3 points a game and go 3 and out everytime which with the raiders offense scoring points for once and allowing the defense to not be on the field for more then half the game and rest of will help them get more wins. Plus his practices are fast paced and no one is ever sitting around. Plus he's working on team unity after practice the other day he had all the players stay and ordered them food and ordered the big boxing match for all of them.

But Like I said I wont be able to change your mind and we will have to see next season what happens but number 1 pick again that wont happen.


OK, now lets switch this a little bit....

no theres articles saying how Marinelli has changed the team around and how Martz actually has an offensive scheme and Colletto has actually changed the offensive line around and put players at there normal positions .

Marinelli has weeded out the players who dont want to be here while bringing in players from every where promoting competion between everyone which steps up everyones game. Plus the defense which was the big problem last year will be better and most likely wont give up so many points due to the fact they have a year in the system under their belts and allowing the defense to not be on the field for more then half the game and rest of will help them get more wins. Plus his practices are fast paced and no one is ever sitting around. Plus he's working on team unity after practice the other day he had *insert thing Marinelli did herer for team unity that I didn't read aobut cuz the Lions piss me off with losing year after year*.


You see what I did? I changed names, and your lil blurb about offense to defense. That's it. Dude, we hear this shit year after year. This is the standard "my team will be better this year than last cuz of this" speech. Face it, the Raiders are a fucking mess, just like the Lions. They wont get much better till Ol' man Davis kicks the bucket, and we wont get much better till Ol' man Ford does the same.

[MallenManson]

Oaklands Offense only sucked last season and like I said it was more the offensive scheme Shell had. The other 3 years they sucked the offense was pretty good while the Defense sucked.


not tryin to burst your bubble here but who is gonna make this a good offense this year? you're either starting a rookie QB or a guy that got zero snaps last season with the lions.
the wr's seem to be in even worse shape.
porter had 1 catch last year
gabriel had 5
williams had 8 and was cut by the lions
currey had a decent season but that's about it
rb's are a qustion mark but could be the most dependable spot on the team.

[O'Donal31]

OK, now lets switch this a little bit....

no theres articles saying how Marinelli has changed the team around and how Martz actually has an offensive scheme and Colletto has actually changed the offensive line around and put players at there normal positions .

Marinelli has weeded out the players who dont want to be here while bringing in players from every where promoting competion between everyone which steps up everyones game. Plus the defense which was the big problem last year will be better and most likely wont give up so many points due to the fact they have a year in the system under their belts and allowing the defense to not be on the field for more then half the game and rest of will help them get more wins. Plus his practices are fast paced and no one is ever sitting around. Plus he's working on team unity after practice the other day he had *insert thing Marinelli did herer for team unity that I didn't read aobut cuz the Lions piss me off with losing year after year*.


You see what I did? I changed names, and your lil blurb about offense to defense. That's it. Dude, we hear this shit year after year. This is the standard "my team will be better this year than last cuz of this" speech. Face it, the Raiders are a fucking mess, just like the Lions. They wont get much better till Ol' man Davis kicks the bucket, and we wont get much better till Ol' man Ford does the same.

Yea just like they were a mess until they Hired a guy named Jon Gruden who turned the team around. 3 out of the 4 years they sucked was because the defense lost games for them. Last year with Shell and Tom Walsh who had the worst schemes alive and coached the oline to shit it was the offense that sucked. You don't follow the Raiders or read shit online about them. There offense isn't going to suck as bad as it did last year and they aren't in a fucking mess as you say the defense is young and good and now they just need to have the offense be fucking average just an average offense and they will win more games then they did last year. They should have won 3 or 4 more games then they did last year because the offense couldn't score when they needed them 2. BUT once again like I said I can't change your mind your used to the Lions sucking and dont believe they will get better but the Raiders have done everything right this offseason and Kiffin is making and doing all the right moves with this team. They wont suck like they did last season.

[O'Donal31]

not tryin to burst your bubble here but who is gonna make this a good offense this year? you're either starting a rookie QB or a guy that got zero snaps last season with the lions.
the wr's seem to be in even worse shape.
porter had 1 catch last year
gabriel had 5
williams had 8 and was cut by the lions
currey had a decent season but that's about it
rb's are a qustion mark but could be the most dependable spot on the team.

Porter is a good WR but has always been the backup and he had 1 catch last year because Shell got pissed at him for mocking him and didn't let him play. Gabriel went to the patriots and got put in a dog house and then came back to Oakland and didn't play that much
Williams probably wont make the team
Curry did nasty last season with that shitty ass offense.

I already made my post earlier go back a few pages and I explained it all.

[O'Donal31]

Just because a guy got zero snaps doesn't mean he's going to suck. Thats what practice and the offseason and preseason are for to get people into game shape

[MallenManson]

OK, now lets switch this a little bit....

no theres articles saying how Marinelli has changed the team around and how Martz actually has an offensive scheme and Colletto has actually changed the offensive line around and put players at there normal positions .

Marinelli has weeded out the players who dont want to be here while bringing in players from every where promoting competion between everyone which steps up everyones game. Plus the defense which was the big problem last year will be better and most likely wont give up so many points due to the fact they have a year in the system under their belts and allowing the defense to not be on the field for more then half the game and rest of will help them get more wins. Plus his practices are fast paced and no one is ever sitting around. Plus he's working on team unity after practice the other day he had *insert thing Marinelli did herer for team unity that I didn't read aobut cuz the Lions piss me off with losing year after year*.


You see what I did? I changed names, and your lil blurb about offense to defense. That's it. Dude, we hear this shit year after year. This is the standard "my team will be better this year than last cuz of this" speech. Face it, the Raiders are a fucking mess, just like the Lions. They wont get much better till Ol' man Davis kicks the bucket, and we wont get much better till Ol' man Ford does the same.


REP. on a side note, i can understand why donal is buyin into it. i did for a long time with the lions. no more jello for me , mom!

[O'Donal31]

Im clearly not gonna change your minds so we will have to wait for the season.

but one last thing....who thought the saints would be so good last season when the year before they had the number 2 pick?

or a few years ago when the chargers went like 1-15 then all of a sudden the next season became a power house?

shit like that happens. not saying it will for the raiders but it does happen.

[MallenManson]

Porter is a good WR but has always been the backup and he had 1 catch last year because Shell got pissed at him for mocking him and didn't let him play. Gabriel went to the patriots and got put in a dog house and then came back to Oakland and didn't play that much
Williams probably wont make the team
Curry did nasty last season with that shitty ass offense.

I already made my post earlier go back a few pages and I explained it all.


i saw it the 1st time through the thread. i'm guessing it's just as funny the 2nd time around.

[MallenManson]

Yea just like they were a mess until they Hired a guy named Jon Gruden who turned the team around. 3 out of the 4 years they sucked was because the defense lost games for them. Last year with Shell and Tom Walsh who had the worst schemes alive and coached the oline to shit it was the offense that sucked. You don't follow the Raiders or read shit online about them. There offense isn't going to suck as bad as it did last year and they aren't in a fucking mess as you say the defense is young and good and now they just need to have the offense be fucking average just an average offense and they will win more games then they did last year. They should have won 3 or 4 more games then they did last year because the offense couldn't score when they needed them 2. BUT once again like I said I can't change your mind your used to the Lions sucking and dont believe they will get better but the Raiders have done everything right this offseason and Kiffin is making and doing all the right moves with this team. They wont suck like they did last season.




i hope you're not hanging your hopes on the offense being average

[MallenManson]

Im clearly not gonna change your minds so we will have to wait for the season.

but one last thing....who thought the saints would be so good last season when the year before they had the number 2 pick?

or a few years ago when the chargers went like 1-15 then all of a sudden the next season became a power house?

shit like that happens. not saying it will for the raiders but it does happen.



actually, i think alot of people expected the saints to be strong after adding brees. as far as the chargers go, they have the best RB and TE in football, not to mention pretty good success with their last 2 starting qb's.

[O'Donal31]

i hope you're not hanging your hopes on the offense being average

I will

Last season they played with a horrible oline playing man blocking instead of zone that allowed sacks

they played with a non motivated aaron brooks and rookie QB andrew walter

They benched there second best WR and traded away there 3rd and there best WR didn't feel like playing.

There running back got injured and they relied on Justin fargas all year

The offense wasn't motivated and didn't believe in the coaches or the plays and basically quit.

This year the offensive line is actually using a normal NFL blocking scheme and players are back in there normal spots plus good veterns have been brought in.

Josh Mccown did alright with a shitty cardinals team so he should be alright with a better raiders offense. Russell if he gets the chance to play could be good.

This year they got rid of the problem WR and will allow Porter to be the number 1 which he has never been and hes motivated. Curry who was there bright spot last season and almost had 1000 yards with a shitty offense will be the 2 and will be good.Gabriel has always done a good job as a 3.

This year for the back field they signed a great fullback in Justin Griffith who can block run and catch and will be a good threat. They signed Rhodes who wont be a full time start but split him with Jordan and Fargas and Bush at some point and they will be good.

This year they have a coach that had brought in an actual offensive scheme and brought new life and motivated this team and has them all believing they will be good. In practice everything matters. He has people fighting for there jobs by promoting competion between players to get the best out of them. He had the Kicker set up at the 45 yard line and told him if he missed the whole team had to run laps and do sprints at the end of practice. Making everything a pressure situation. He has changed this team around and the season hasnt started.

but I guess all that doesn't mean anything. Oh well.

[kilo]

Yea just like they were a mess until they Hired a guy named Jon Gruden who turned the team around. 3 out of the 4 years they sucked was because the defense lost games for them. Last year with Shell and Tom Walsh who had the worst schemes alive and coached the oline to shit it was the offense that sucked. You don't follow the Raiders or read shit online about them. There offense isn't going to suck as bad as it did last year and they aren't in a fucking mess as you say the defense is young and good and now they just need to have the offense be fucking average just an average offense and they will win more games then they did last year. They should have won 3 or 4 more games then they did last year because the offense couldn't score when they needed them 2. BUT once again like I said I can't change your mind your used to the Lions sucking and dont believe they will get better but the Raiders have done everything right this offseason and Kiffin is making and doing all the right moves with this team. They wont suck like they did last season.

A few points. I think it's great that you have hope that your team will do good. And if they do well next year, thats great. I used to be a big Raiders fan, and would like to see them do well. But so far, your excuses for the raiders doing better next year sound like they are straight from the mouths of the reoprters that always say "next year will be better". You want to have blind faith, fine. If you want to make a believer out of me, then you have to come with stronger game than that.

[MadNova]

and the lions can hang their hat on their O. only problem is, the D will lose them double digit games. same can be said for oakland's O

Eh...the Lions "O" was in the bottom half of the league last year.

As it was before Martz got there.

When I said Oaklnad can hang their hat on it's D, I meant that they could do that because it's a strong unit(see 2005 Bears), not that it's just less horrible than the other unit, which is the case with the Lions.

I could see a sudden and fast improvement with the Raiders this year. Not playoffs or anything, not in that division, but maybe 7 or 8 wins.

Finishing ahead of KC.

[MallenManson]

I will

Last season they played with a horrible oline playing man blocking instead of zone that allowed sacks

they played with a non motivated aaron brooks and rookie QB andrew walter

They benched there second best WR and traded away there 3rd and there best WR didn't feel like playing.

There running back got injured and they relied on Justin fargas all year

The offense wasn't motivated and didn't believe in the coaches or the plays and basically quit.

This year the offensive line is actually using a normal NFL blocking scheme and players are back in there normal spots plus good veterns have been brought in.

Josh Mccown did alright with a shitty cardinals team so he should be alright with a better raiders offense. Russell if he gets the chance to play could be good.

This year they got rid of the problem WR and will allow Porter to be the number 1 which he has never been and hes motivated. Curry who was there bright spot last season and almost had 1000 yards with a shitty offense will be the 2 and will be good.Gabriel has always done a good job as a 3.

This year for the back field they signed a great fullback in Justin Griffith who can block run and catch and will be a good threat. They signed Rhodes who wont be a full time start but split him with Jordan and Fargas and Bush at some point and they will be good.

This year they have a coach that had brought in an actual offensive scheme and brought new life and motivated this team and has them all believing they will be good. In practice everything matters. He has people fighting for there jobs by promoting competion between players to get the best out of them. He had the Kicker set up at the 45 yard line and told him if he missed the whole team had to run laps and do sprints at the end of practice. Making everything a pressure situation. He has changed this team around and the season hasnt started.

but I guess all that doesn't mean anything. Oh well.



you're 100% correct. it doesn't mean anything. until they win, which remains to be seen. that's been pretty much my point since we started this debate. on mccown, yeah he played on a shitty offense but he had 2 stud wr's to throw to. rhodes sucks imo. bush i think will be a very nice pickup and will assume the starting job before long. even with that being said, the raiders will be the west coast version of the lions

[O'Donal31]

actually, i think alot of people expected the saints to be strong after adding brees. as far as the chargers go, they have the best RB and TE in football, not to mention pretty good success with their last 2 starting qb's.

Oh so adding Brees was automatically going to make a team that was 3-13 go 10-6 the next year and make a run at the superbowl?

and the Chargers were 4-12 and had LT who was good but not what he is now but no gates that year and the next year they went 12-4 because Gates had an amazing season. So what your saying is basically 1 or 2 guys can turn a team around.....alright well I think the raiders have that.

[MadNova]

actually, i think alot of people expected the saints to be strong after adding brees. as far as the chargers go, they have the best RB and TE in football, not to mention pretty good success with their last 2 starting qb's.

I call BS here.

Brees' shoulder injury, the questionable state of the o-line, and the shoddy defense from the year before didn't have people predicting a "strong" Saints team.

Hell, 8 games into the season people still weren't believing in them.

As for the Chargers, that TE was an unknown when that turnaround happened. The best running back in the league was already there when they turned in that crappy season that netted them Eli Manning. People were not expecting them to do anything.

[O'Donal31]

you're 100% correct. it doesn't mean anything. until they win, which remains to be seen. that's been pretty much my point since we started this debate. on mccown, yeah he played on a shitty offense but he had 2 stud wr's to throw to. rhodes sucks imo. bush i think will be a very nice pickup and will assume the starting job before long. even with that being said, the raiders will be the west coast version of the lions

Im not expecting anything out of Mccown I think he will be a good QB for the few games he plays until Russell gets ready.

Rhodes isn't a bad split time running back and he should have been the MVP of the superbowl.

The Raiders have good WR they just never had a chance to show it because they have had great WR infront of them and this is the year they get that chance.

My point is they are not going to suck like they did last year. Last year there offense was the worst in the history of the NFL and they can only get better. I have been saying all along I dont think the Raiders are going to make the playoffs but then again I dont believe they will have the number 1 overrall pick or be a bottom 5.

I dont believe the Lions will have the number 1 pick either there offense should keep them in alot of games.

[MadNova]

you're 100% correct. it doesn't mean anything. until they win, which remains to be seen. that's been pretty much my point since we started this debate. on mccown, yeah he played on a ####ty offense but he had 2 stud wr's to throw to. rhodes sucks imo. bush i think will be a very nice pickup and will assume the starting job before long. even with that being said, the raiders will be the west coast version of the lions

McCown's "success" came prior to Fitzgerald joining the team.

Kurt Warner was the guy that had the two stud recievers.

[MallenManson]

Eh...the Lions "O" was in the bottom half of the league last year.

As it was before Martz got there.

When I said Oaklnad can hang their hat on it's D, I meant that they could do that because it's a strong unit(see 2005 Bears), not that it's just less horrible than the other unit, which is the case with the Lions.

I could see a sudden and fast improvement with the Raiders this year. Not playoffs or anything, not in that division, but maybe 7 or 8 wins.

Finishing ahead of KC.


i will give you the argument of the lions O being in the bottom half, which was due to the running game. the passing game was strong, although kitna made way too many turnovers. not that kj was a stud before he went down, but the o will definitely suck when arlen harris is your 2nd best rb.

[MallenManson]

Oh so adding Brees was automatically going to make a team that was 3-13 go 10-6 the next year and make a run at the superbowl?

and the Chargers were 4-12 and had LT who was good but not what he is now but no gates that year and the next year they went 12-4 because Gates had an amazing season. So what your saying is basically 1 or 2 guys can turn a team around.....alright well I think the raiders have that.


where in my post did i use the word "automatically"? i aso never said 1 or 2 guys can turn a team around. 1 or 2 guys can turn a team around on occasion, if a good portion of pieces are in place. i don't see it for the raiders. just like i don't see it for the lions.

[O'Donal31]

where in my post did i use the word "automatically"? i aso never said 1 or 2 guys can turn a team around. 1 or 2 guys can turn a team around on occasion, if a good portion of pieces are in place. i don't see it for the raiders. just like i don't see it for the lions.

Well you said everyone thought the saints would be good because they added brees even though they were 3-13 the year before

and you said the chargers got good because they had LT and Gates.

[MadNova]

i will give you the argument of the lions O being in the bottom half, which was due to the running game. the passing game was strong, although kitna made way too many turnovers. not that kj was a stud before he went down, but the o will definitely suck when arlen harris is your 2nd best rb.

All I'm saying is, if you have a very good D, it doesn't take a lot of offensive improvement to start racking up more wins.

And it does help a little when your RB rotation includes 2 former 1,000 yard rushers.

[MallenManson]

I call BS here.

Brees' shoulder injury, the questionable state of the o-line, and the shoddy defense from the year before didn't have people predicting a "strong" Saints team.

Hell, 8 games into the season people still weren't believing in them.

As for the Chargers, that TE was an unknown when that turnaround happened. The best running back in the league was already there when they turned in that crappy season that netted them Eli Manning. People were not expecting them to do anything.


you can call it whatever you want. i personally thought brees would be a huge lift. i was sorely disappointed that the lions didn't get him. recovering shoulder injury or no. not quite sure what your point about Gates being an unknown has to do with anything. unknown at the time or not, he is the best TE in the league.

[O'Donal31]

you can call it whatever you want. i personally thought brees would be a huge lift. i was sorely disappointed that the lions didn't get him. recovering shoulder injury or no. not quite sure what your point about Gates being an unknown has to do with anything. unknown at the time or not, he is the best TE in the league.

Gates was unbelievable that season but LT was injured for most of the year that year so he didn't have much 2 do with it.

[MallenManson]

Well you said everyone thought the saints would be good because they added brees even though they were 3-13 the year before

and you said the chargers got good because they had LT and Gates.




lmao. dude if you're gonna have a debate, pay attention to what's been said. you're still doin it. where did i say "everyone"? and where did i say the chargers got good because they had lt and gates. i was making the point that they had 2 studs in place. i never claimed they were the sole reason

[MallenManson]

All I'm saying is, if you have a very good D, it doesn't take a lot of offensive improvement to start racking up more wins.

And it does help a little when your RB rotation includes 2 former 1,000 yard rushers.


that i can definitely agree with. hell baltimore won a super bowl on defense alone. i just don't see oakland making much progress, if any on O. ehhhh....the 2 rb's have rushed for 1000 yards but i'm not high on either of them. jordan could bounce back but i have questions about that. rhodes i'm really down on.

[O'Donal31]

actually, i think alot of people expected the saints to be strong after adding brees. as far as the chargers go, they have the best RB and TE in football, not to mention pretty good success with their last 2 starting qb's.

He wasn't the best RB in the league and he was hurt then and Gates no one new who he was he was a big plus that season for them. Brees also sucked it up but when he thought he was going to lose his job to rivers he went off. So the way I take that is oh they have the best RB and TE in the league and turned there shitty season the season before into a 12-4 season. You never mentioned any other players on the team to change it around you only said those 2.

What 2 starting QBs did they have that had good success?

[MallenManson]

He wasn't the best RB in the league and he was hurt then and Gates no one new who he was he was a big plus that season for them. Brees also sucked it up but when he thought he was going to lose his job to rivers he went off. So the way I take that is oh they have the best RB and TE in the league and turned there shitty season the season before into a 12-4 season.



lmao. i never said he was the best rb in the league THEN. i say he is now. he was still on the team. same thing with gates. the fact that he was an unknown at the time has absolutely nothing to do with it. he is the premier te in the league and he played a huge part in their improvement. you can take it ayway you want. only problem is, that isn't what i said. i also don't care what motivated brees to have the year he did before he left. fact is, he had it

[MadNova]

you can call it whatever you want. i personally thought brees would be a huge lift. i was sorely disappointed that the lions didn't get him. recovering shoulder injury or no. not quite sure what your point about Gates being an unknown has to do with anything. unknown at the time or not, he is the best TE in the league.

You were predicting the Saints to challenge for the playoffs?

And Gates being unknown at the time has everything to do with it. We were talking about people's expectations of the team after that horrible season. People didn't know that Gates was going to be a breakout player at that time, and their expectations were that the Chargers weren't going to be a very good team. The Brees experiment was failing horribly, and they were expecting to start a rookie QB.

Brees then turned things around in a big way, and the team was the huge surprise of the league.

It's not out of the question that the Raiders have an unkown on the roster who could break out in a big way like Gates. Or an player who has thus far underachieved that finally has things click for him, like Brees.

[O'Donal31]

lmao. i never said he was the best rb in the league THEN. i say he is now. he was still on the team. same thing with gates. the fact that he was an unknown at the time has absolutely nothing to do with it. he is the premier te in the league and he played a huge part in their improvement. you can take it ayway you want. only problem is, that isn't what i said. i also don't care what motivated brees to have the year he did before he left. fact is, he had it

Yep and my point is you can have shitty players on your team one year and the next the players can do awesome.

Or you can have an unknown player on your team that steps up and becomes a pro bowl player and turns the team around.

Any shitty team one year can all of a sudden do amazing the next season Is what I was saying when I brought those shitty teams up.

[MallenManson]

You were predicting the Saints to challenge for the playoffs?

And Gates being unknown at the time has everything to do with it. We were talking about people's expectations of the team after that horrible season. People didn't know that Gates was going to be a breakout player at that time, and their expectations were that the Chargers weren't going to be a very good team. The Brees experiment was failing horribly, and they were expecting to start a rookie QB.

Brees then turned things around in a big way, and the team was the huge surprise of the league.

It's not out of the question that the Raiders have an unkown on the roster who could break out in a big way like Gates. Or an player who has thus far underachieved that finally has things click for him, like Brees.



i wouldn't say i was predicting them to be a playoff team but i definitely thought they'd be greatly improved. hell, just releasing brooks made them greatly improved. and no, when i mentioned gates it wasn't in reference to people's expectations as you put it. i was pointing out the fact that they had serious studs on that team, which helped lead them to their turnaround. something i don't think the raiders do at this point, which is the point i was making. so as far as my mentioning of gates, the unknown factor has zero to do with it.

[MallenManson]

Yep and my point is you can have shitty players on your team one year and the next the players can do awesome.

Or you can have an unknown player on your team that steps up and becomes a pro bowl player and turns the team around.

Any shitty team one year can all of a sudden do amazing the next season Is what I was saying when I brought those shitty teams up.



i agree with you 100% on those points. it's not out of the realm of possibility that the raiders turn it around. it's happened before. i just don't see it happening this year. in reality, i could care less. i have enough on my plate just worrying about the Lie Downs. and truth be told, i'd put money on the raiders doing it before the lions do. man it pains me to say that! sigh.............the saints and bucs have done it and that's sad! lol

[O'Donal31]

i agree with you 100% on those points. it's not out of the realm of possibility that the raiders turn it around. it's happened before. i just don't see it happening this year. in reality, i could care less. i have enough on my plate just worrying about the Lie Downs. and truth be told, i'd put money on the raiders doing it before the lions do. man it pains me to say that! sigh.............the saints and bucs have done it and that's sad! lol

Lol you never know what might happen. I think the lions will have a good offense this year and will keep them in a lot of games. Basically what the lions need is a Raiders like D and the Raiders will need the Lions O.....maybe we can have a new team just merge them together...lol jk

Dont the lions and raiders play week 1?

[MallenManson]

Lol you never know what might happen. I think the lions will have a good offense this year and will keep them in a lot of games. Basically what the lions need is a Raiders like D and the Raiders will need the Lions O.....maybe we can have a new team just merge them together...lol jk

Dont the lions and raiders play week 1?



lmao. before i even got to the last part of your 1st paragraph, i was thinking the exact same thing! that would make for a solid team. i also agree that the lions will score alot of points. too bad our d will give up more than our o scores. and yeah, i do believe we square off in week 1. as low as i am on the raiders, i would still put money on you guys that week. all bs aside, i hope the raiders do make huge strides. i like to see other teams climb outta the cellar and become contenders. maybe i'm just an underdog kinda guy or maybe i keep thinkin that sooner or later it's gotta be our turn lol. lemm see.....cincy...saints....bucs....chargers.....lol

[Shagg68]

Lol you never know what might happen. I think the lions will have a good offense this year and will keep them in a lot of games. Basically what the lions need is a Raiders like D and the Raiders will need the Lions O.....maybe we can have a new team just merge them together...lol jk

Dont the lions and raiders play week 1?

Yeah and don't laugh because I think that game could end up being a barn burner. Thats if the Raiders with Russell heave it down the field. And with Detroit not that strong in the secondary it could end up being a big day for Russell. But that said I think CJ will have a coming out party in week 1. Prediction 38-36 Lions :D

[KingCole]

Yeah and don't laugh because I think that game could end up being a barn burner. Thats if the Raiders with Russell heave it down the field. And with Detroit not that strong in the secondary it could end up being a big day for Russell. But that said I think CJ will have a coming out party in week 1. Prediction 38-36 Lions :Dso russell starts week 1 over mccown?

[MadNova]

i was pointing out the fact that they had serious studs on that team, which helped lead them to their turnaround. something i don't think the raiders do at this point, which is the point i was making. so as far as my mentioning of gates, the unknown factor has zero to do with it.

But, as was my point, Gates wasn't known to be a stud before that season.

So the Raiders quite possibly, at this point, have that same type of stud in waiting on their team.

In fact, maybe that guy is Robert Gallery. It will be interesting to see how he responds to his first season with an NFL caliber offensive line coach.

[Becherr]

Goodness, I started reading this thread from the top and I had thought a few of you sprung a leak until I noticed the date.

[O'Donal31]

Yeah and don't laugh because I think that game could end up being a barn burner. Thats if the Raiders with Russell heave it down the field. And with Detroit not that strong in the secondary it could end up being a big day for Russell. But that said I think CJ will have a coming out party in week 1. Prediction 38-36 Lions :D

CJ can have fun trying to have a coming out party agains't the number 1 rated pass defense last season and against Asomugha

[MallenManson]

But, as was my point, Gates wasn't known to be a stud before that season.

So the Raiders quite possibly, at this point, have that same type of stud in waiting on their team.

In fact, maybe that guy is Robert Gallery. It will be interesting to see how he responds to his first season with an NFL caliber offensive line coach.


thatunderstood. still wasn't MY point